Group Buy...

I and another member are looking to purchase some "certified, hormone free" Electric Blue Rams. The only way I know of insuring their cleanness is to go to the breeder themselves... So, I'm about to negotiate a volume purchase for the EBR's (Electric Blue Rams) as well as some GBR's... I'll begin negotiations some time this week. Anyone else want in? I'm guessing my/our price will be dependent upon the volume we order. I'd expect the EBR's to be somewhere around $5.00 each, the GBR's a bit cheaper... Bill

Definitely IN!!! just let me know. I have a female GBR that is waiting her turn to mate . Depending on the price I will try to get at least 5 no less. I could get more depending on the price and space...hehe

Keep me up to date on this one. I want a few and can ask several others if they want to join in also. How many do you need to order to meet the breeder's minimum order quantity?

There is a breeder up here who sells adult pairs for $20/pair.

He sells adult pairs of German Blue Rams for $12/pair.

If can come up for a PVAS meeting or event, you could save shipping or it should be cheap to have them shipped(he is southern MD).

At least a dozen I'm guessing.

Well, between Doxie and me, I'm up to a dozen EBR's, and 6 GBR's + 2 more for Neo...BUT, the bigger the count, the better the barter position I'd think. Bill

Is there a difference between hormone free and hormone treated rams? Or is it just to get a naturally looking ram for ethical reasons? I've seen hormone treated gouramies and after a while they return to their non breeding colors in a couple of months and can still regain the colors with proper conditions and age.

Amp, according to my research there is a potential for the breeding capabilities to be reduced, if not eliminated, in hormone treated fish.  Treatment can also affect full growth and the will color dissipate in time.  Once returning to normal, the fish will not achieve full coloration if left untreated.  Bill

Oh, and plus the ethical issue you mentioned.  Bill

Bill..Thought I better chime in here. I don't want to buy inbred or hormone treated EBR's!!! If we aren't familiar with the source..I'd rather not.

Dox.. I think you need to reread my posts... Joe is a well known and respected breeder... I was just explaining to Amp the issues with hormones... And the negatives associated with them... As I've shared, two of my most respected friends in the hobby, visited his fish room and vouch for his offerings... So.. till I hear back from ya.. I'll hold off on including your 1/2 doz in the purchase. In no way,shape or form would I pursue a line on hormone or inbred fish.  He periodically offers his breeders for sale to infuse outside lines to keep his offerings from in-breeding.   Bill

Friends.. you'll find the breeder I'm referring to on Aquabid.. Discus and Apistos'.  He's written a number of papers on breeding and rams.  He's developed some of the strains we see in the market today.  His name is JoeGargas out of Florida.  If you go to the feedback section on AB, he has over 1,100 reviews, 11 negative but all from the same "buyer".  that same buyer, has given him high marks a number of times... Bill

I had done business with him before. Once I bought some discus from him but they came in dead and he refused to refund my money. He told me "I will refund on your next purchase". Which I never did.

1,117 folks find they experience a different result than you!  Were you home for the delivery?  Did you pay for expedited shipping?  Did you photograph the receipt within 2 hrs as required under Terms of Sale for DOA's?  
At this point, till all the facts are in, I'll entrust my efforts/funds with some long-time keepers/breeders that give Joe high marks.. Bill

Bill, my apologies!! i DID jump the gun on that comment. I trust YOUR judgement 100% so carry on...I'm still IN for 6! My quick response was due to the findings on inbreeding and hormone effects....not something we want to mess with!

@Verbal...can you give me his info? I don't think any of us want adult breeding pairs but I'd like to see what he has. I will volunteer to make the run to MD. if we can get the pricing/selection right.

Doxiemom wrote:@Verbal...can you give me his info? I don't think any of us want adult breeding pairs but I'd like to see what he has. I will volunteer to make the run to MD. if we can get the pricing/selection right.

It looks like Bill has a good source, and the price he is talking about would be a great deal. So it probably makes sense to see how it plays out first.

They are sexed pairs rather than breeding pairs. Although there have been many a number of cases of them spawning pretty soon after he sells them. At one point he was selling young electric blues a little cheaper than the sexed ones. His name is Frank Cowherd.

His website(not terribly up to date) is here - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] The email on his contact page is correct.

I can post a full price list from the last club meeting if there is interest in his stuff.

Thank you SO much! Bill, we can keep this as a backup source maybe???

Bill, I'm not doubting your judgement at all. I just don't like the way he does business. I have been buying fish from aquabid for a while now and I'm usually good reporting DOAs. Either way I need some rams lol. I will still get 2 Electric(male and female if possible) and 2 German blue ram (2 male).