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Is this columnaris?

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Is this columnaris?

Post  Amp2020 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:39 pm

Had some fish die recently and here's what I've noticed. Heavy breathing. Staying close to the water surface. White patches of slime over the body. Sometimes the patches from a saddle over the back of the fish. Red blemishes just beneath the surface with no signs of physical injury. Rapid death within 24 hrs after first signs of white patches. No finrot on smaller fish, but significant amount of finrot on larger fish with surrounding areas showing red ulcers near the finrot areas.

I've already tried treating with tetracycline because that's what I had on hand with no effect. Thinking about trying several medications and want to know whT others think about this. 1% salt solution in the tank. Feed the fish Kanamycin medicated foods. Treat the entire tank with a nitrofuran based medication. Now I just need to find a good source for these meds. and figure out the correct dosages.

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Re: Is this columnaris?

Post  Amp2020 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:41 pm

Contamination of my tank occurred last Friday and the first signs appeared yesterday with several deaths this morning. So anyone who got plants from me can relax.

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Re: Is this columnaris?

Post  williemcd on Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:01 pm

tank temps?  Meth blue bath is a 1st step from what I've read....Followed by the Kanamycin you referenced...

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Re: Is this columnaris?

Post  Doxiemom on Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:59 pm

That really sounds like a burn of some sort....Chemicals like chloramine, ammonia???
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Re: Is this columnaris?

Post  Amp2020 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:45 pm

Temp. 80 degrees F.
Ammonia in the tank is zero
Nitrites are zero
Nitrates are below 5ppm
pH 7.2
Water hardness is soft from being a heavy planted tank.
Going to pull all the plants out before adding salt.

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Re: Is this columnaris?

Post  Amp2020 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:04 pm





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Re: Is this columnaris?

Post  Amp2020 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:05 pm

Yellow water is from medication.

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Re: Is this columnaris?

Post  williemcd on Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:05 pm

Best of luck correcting that issue!... I understand it's a bitc#...
Bill

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Re: Is this columnaris?

Post  Doxiemom on Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:41 pm

Chlorine/Chloramine burns look similar...burns off slime coat...turns white to red. Keep treating as you are. It should improve within three days.
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Re: Is this columnaris?

Post  neogeo20041 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:46 am

Hemorrhagic Septicemia – Is a bacterial infection and is VERY contagious.
Symptoms are red blood streaks in fins and/or on the body of the fish. Fish can act lethargic with this also.
It is a fast killing infection that can spread rapidly through your tank to other fish. When working in an infected tank be sure to sterilize anything that comes in contact with the tank water such as nets, siphons, plants and decorations and…even your hands and arms before putting them into another tank.
Treatment - In my opinion the best treatment for this is Oxytetracycline. There may be other medications that help cure this also, but the Oxytetracycline works fairly fast from my experience with it.

My personal recommendation would be to try using melafix and pirmafix with every water change which simply increases cell regeneration. When a fishes' immune system is weak hardly any medicine will work. With that said, some of the medicine won't be helpful if water quality isn't keep at the best. I cannot stress the importance of good water quality and the difference it makes on a recovering fish.

My suggestion will be to do at least to do 50% to 25% water change a day on the sick tank. Use of Kanamycin sulfate, metronidazle, and nitrofurazone after every water change. Also if the fish is eating start with kanamycin and only feed what they can eat every minute. Do not over feed the medicated because after certain amount of time the flakes leech out the nutrient in the water making it just filler. Angelplus has a good description about some of the meds use for common problems if you need more info. Hope that helped a little. I can give you more source if needed.    

Original link-
http://www.angelfishkisses.com/forum/faq.php?faq=a_0#faq_a_1
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Re: Is this columnaris?

Post  Doxiemom on Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:05 am

Neo.....that is a LOT of different medication to recommend and you are not certain what the diagnosis is. The list of meds you've included treats different things...caused by different ailments! The #1 WORST THING one can do is just randomly throw meds in the tank. This adversely affects the fishes immune system, cause toxic poisonous conditions and wipe out the entire tank and good bacteria.
And FYI for all...before you go buy Melafix & waste money.....It is tea tree oil & lots of water. You can buy pharmaceutical grade tea tree oil for about $4, you'll have enough to last for YEARS!
Amp..Are you seeing any improvement so far with the meds you used?? One thing I noticed is tank temp. Can you drop it down a little til you get this under control? I'm thinking 74-75*. If this is COLUMNARIS it will slow the spread.(This is different from a parasite where you'd increase the temp.)
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Re: Is this columnaris?

Post  williemcd on Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:21 am

Dox. ya beat me to the punch on the temp.. That was my first query but didn't get around to the suggestion.....Good on ya.... Bill

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Re: Is this columnaris?

Post  Doxiemom on Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:29 am

Thanks Bill....I've been round the world with overdosing and trying too much too fast. I've adopted the "keep it as simple as possible" attitude. Bacteria are stunted by lower temps (why it's SO cold in hospitals/doctors offices). And, of course the parasitic outbreaks are sped up and killed with heat. I'm thinking this is bacterial with a secondary fungal (fin &tail).
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Re: Is this columnaris?

Post  neogeo20041 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:41 pm

Doxiemom wrote:Thanks Bill....I've been round the world with overdosing and trying too much too fast. I've adopted the "keep it as simple as possible" attitude. Bacteria are stunted by lower temps (why it's SO cold in hospitals/doctors offices). And, of course the parasitic outbreaks are sped up and killed with heat. I'm thinking this is bacterial with a secondary fungal (fin &tail).

Most of the medicine I suggested should be at least kept just in case of an emergency. None of the medicines I listed actually do any harm to your nitrifiying bacteria except for meth blue which I didn't even suggest. If you know anything about bacteria you will know that certain bacteria aren't stunted by lower temp but lay dormant. If the bacteria was killed in cold water then we would get away from rising our equipment in cold water instead of actually bleaching it, during our regular maintenance. As long the temperature goes back to the bacteria's favor it will come back again. Some bacteria /virus are too stubborn and the only way to get rid of them is by getting rid of the fish. If you are unable to do that because of the number of tanks infected then gram-positive and gram-negative medication is a good way to combat those problems.

Link http://www.angelsplus.com/ArticleBacteria.htm (not scientifically proven)
Link http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/vibrio_aeromonas.html
link http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Disease.html
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Re: Is this columnaris?

Post  neogeo20041 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:47 pm

Had some fish die recently and here's what I've noticed. Heavy breathing. Staying close to the water surface. White patches of slime over the body. Sometimes the patches from a saddle over the back of the fish. Red blemishes just beneath the surface with no signs of physical injury. Rapid death within 24 hrs after first signs of white patches. No finrot on smaller fish, but significant amount of finrot on larger fish with surrounding areas showing red ulcers near the finrot areas. (by Amp2020) Don't know how to quote him from the first post.

These are all classic signs of septicemia.

link
http://www.angelfish.net/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=22027

Medication
http://www.angelsplus.com/MedsAntibiotic.htm[/font]


Last edited by neogeo20041 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Is this columnaris?

Post  williemcd on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:51 pm

Neo.. I think the temp suggestion was a means of suppressing the aggressive growth of bacteria that results with higher temps.  It gives the fish a fighting chance while the owner combats the root cause.  It in no way was suggested as the cure... Bill

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Re: Is this columnaris?

Post  williemcd on Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:13 pm

On an additional note... It was me that suggested a meth blue bath... A bath is the act of netting the fish and dunking it in a prepared container with the appropriate dosage of Meth... for like 5 seconds and then returning the specimen to the original tank..... It would in no way effect the water chemistry of the host tank.  Bill

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Re: Is this columnaris?

Post  Doxiemom on Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:26 pm

When you treat for certain types of bacteria....it is a good idea to do this along with a lower temp. It slows the spread of the bacteria and had been helpful in reducing the sudden loss of fish. Lower temps slow the bacterial spread/growth (Yes! My Medical training DID pay off!)...I didn't say it was a remedy in itself. It must be used in conjunction WITH a medication....as one would INCREASE temp with parasite meds for the opposite effect. For the type of bacterial infection you're thinking of...Septicemic ...the blood line runs from lateral body line up against dorsal fin...almost as if someone outlined them with a red marker. As it gets worse, you'll see it at the base of the gill/fins. All other symptoms mentioned will appear, though.
As I read your comment...I didn't get that you just meant to have all those meds on hand. I read it as a suggestion for immediate treatment. My bad! I guess I misread! It is a common error when someone is novice to administer a cocktail of different meds out of panic and yes, that will harm the tank and the end result is usually the same!
There is an abundance of personal theory I could reference here, as well. The end result will be a win if we can get this under control. The point is not to overwhelm with objecting views!...the point is to help Amp save his fish.
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Re: Is this columnaris?

Post  williemcd on Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:10 am

I'm freaking confused... Amp thinks the disease is Columnaris.. .And someone chimes in it's HS... Dox is right in that ya don't throw meds in until you've identified the disease to be treated!
So... My VERY limited research is in an attempt to assist, tells me that HS is fairly rare in comparison to Colum.... So, first off, I'd be inclined to lean towards it being Colum....Next up, HS is noted as being slowly impacting the fish and Amp states his conditions are that it's like within 24 hrs!.. Hardly a slow encroachment... Plus the higher temps (80) would accelerate the toxicity of the bacteria...and from what I've seen temps don't play as big a role in HS as it does with Colu......So again, I'd lay the blame on columnaris..... But, there are far better experts on here than me!
Amp... where do you think you picked up the disease and isn't it time for an update?  Bill

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Re: Is this columnaris?

Post  Amp2020 on Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:00 am

It started when I purchased a ropefish. Already had one and new they have a high mortality rate after shipping. Was already treating some fish for fin rot and decided to add the ropefish and several other new fish to the hospital tank first. Didn't want to risk making my other ropefish sick. All the previously treated barbs are still looking fine but will continue to quarantine for another month. The new ropefish survived for about 48 hours. Then the rest of the new fish got sick and also past the next day. Now I have some meds on order in case any new fish get it.

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